The Tender For Law

Volume 13

Feb 04, 2016 1:52 PM

Chris Evan

From the "It's all surety and accounting" Department.

I got a Water Bill in the mail dated 1/26/2016 which was for less than the previous bill. So, my curiosity got the better of me and I dived into the numbers to see what was adjusted.

Long story short (and I can go into the numbers if you like), they didn't deduct any interest that was due on the account, only principle that was due. Also, it seems to take more than one billing cycle for them to do this.

So....since this is true and I have the math to prove it, what is the surety for the interest?

Read Comments

Chris Evan

On a July Water Bill, the balance forward was 807.20, the current charges were 190.73 and the interest was 57.61. It seems (the math works out) that the 807.20 and the 57.61 were paid, but the 190.73 was carried forward. The total of this bill was 1055.54.

This doesn't make sense, unless this trustee was keeping a balance in their Accounts Receivable or something.

Scott Duncan

The HOLDER of the BILL ALWAYS has surety.

If there is no signature, it is NOT a BILL, nor is it an INVOICE. It is a STATEMENT of the ACCOUNT (Notice). You CONSENTED to be SURETY for that ACCOUNT when you APPLIED (Begged and signed) for hydro. Legally all they must do is give NOTICE by way of STATEMENT

If it has a signature on it, it is a BILL. If it has an ENDORSEMENT (Second Signature) it is a BILL OF EXCHANGE. The TRUSTEE is the corporation you got the BILL from.

ALL BILLS HAVE TRUSTEES.

There. Everything you need. Start there.

Eamonn O Brien

What's the difference between this case and the time I dealt with my bin/trash collector? Dunno if you remember, PANDA was the company name. I set up an account over the phone and after a while they introduced a new charge which in response I sent a notice of mistake followed by a completed bill of exchange... Which they returned, so payment refused etc...

I remember you saying that waste collection is the municipality's responsibility (or something similar)... How, as the holder of the bill, am I not surety in that instance?

They've been looking for the account to be settled for quite some time now yet the service has not been stopped...

Pete Daoust

I always send intrustions and consideration with these Bill of Exchange, that's why I can call them "Bill of Exchange", it's says so in the inscructions :/

They also have the instructions on what to do with those, if they would decide to REFUSE them. Just send them back and I PROMISE I WILL "PAY" :/

Pete Daoust

The only time I didn�t send instructions, was with CRA (Canadian Revenu Agency). Because I am in Quebec :P

So they�ve called me, and I gave instructions on the phone. (recorded of course)

This is what I have told them:

�You need to PRESENT that Bill of Exchange to the PAYMENT, which is Bank of Canada�

She said: OK, I�ll contact you if I need more information :D �.. and that was last july

Bart Foley

I'm in the process of notifying irish water for a second time I'm the sole authorised administrator. I've also notified the central bank of ireland that I will no longer buy back public debts. I suspect irish water will come back again stating that I owe x amount and I will notice them for a third time that I am using the surety of the person I possess. Once completed I will send the completed bill of exchange to the central bank of ireland and send another copy of the completed bill to irish water....

Pete Daoust

If they don't REFUSE and/or PRESENT....well, here it goes :P

Public servant refusing to deliver property

337 Every one who, being or having been employed in the service of Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province, or in the service of a municipality, and entrusted by virtue of that employment with the receipt, custody, management or control of anything, refuses or fails to deliver it to a person who is authorized to demand it and does demand it is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 297.

Taking possession, etc., of drift timber

339 (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years who, without the consent of the owner,

(a) fraudulently takes, holds, keeps in his possession, conceals, receives, appropriates, purchases or sells,

(b) removes, alters, obliterates or defaces a mark or number on, or

(c) refuses to deliver up to the owner or to the person in charge thereof on behalf of the owner or to a person authorized by the owner to receive it,

Destroying documents of title

340 Every one who, for a fraudulent purpose, destroys, cancels, conceals or obliterates

(a) a document of title to goods or lands,

(b) a valuable security or testamentary instrument, or

(c) a judicial or official document,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 300.

Fraudulent concealment

341 Every one who, for a fraudulent purpose, takes, obtains, removes or conceals anything is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 301.

:P

Bart Foley

Competed Bill of Exchange on its way, registered mail, to Irish Water with CENTRAL BANK OF IRELAND stamp and SEE BACK FOR ENDORSEMENT stamp on front of PAYMENT SLIP and Administrators stamp with signiture and Bill of Exchange Act 1882 on the back. I've also included a notarised birth certificate and INSTRUCTIONS on what to do with the completed Bill of Exchange and who to PRESENT it too. I have also notified the Central Bank of Ireland I will no longer be buying back public debt created for the person I possess etc.

Bart Foley

Mr. foley (lower case for some reason) received an acknowledgement from the Central Bank of Ireland in response to a letter I sent to the Governor. They also sent it to The Administrators Office and it was signed. Does this now mean they accept me as the Administrator of the legal person i possess and the Central Bank will discharge all public debts PRESENTED to them on BARTHOLOMEW's behalf?

Eamonn O Brien

That's the last time I sent a BOE. I'm a bit rusty with regards giving info on it. Pete is prob the man to be talking to... I don't know if I used the right words on it. I think you're supposed to DEMAND it be presented to the Bank...

Chris Evan

If you look, you will see that if you consider the July 2015 Principle and Interest settled, then the Water plus Sewer charges on the July 2015 Statement plus the Water plus Sewer charges on the Oct 2015 equal the balance carried forward on the January Statement.

Colm Griffin

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001. Suppression, etc., of documents.

11.�(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, destroys, defaces or conceals any valuable security, any will or other testamentary document or any original document of or belonging to, or filed or deposited in, any court or any government department or office.

(2) (a) A person who dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another, by any deception procures the execution of a valuable security is guilty of an offence.

(b) Paragraph (a) shall apply in relation to�

(i) the making, acceptance, endorsement, alteration, cancellation or destruction in whole or in part of a valuable security, and

(ii) the signing or sealing of any paper or other material in order that it may be made or converted into, or used or dealt with as, a valuable security,

as if that were the execution of a valuable security.

(3) In this section, �valuable security� means any document�

(a) creating, transferring, surrendering or releasing any right to, in or over property,

(b) authorising the payment of money or delivery of any property, or

(c) evidencing the creation, transfer, surrender or release of any such right, the payment of money or delivery of any property or the satisfaction of any obligation.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.