The Tender For Law

Volume 8

Dec 18, 2014 12:49 AM

Age Thomson

Ok folks, I've got another dumb question.

I am sure it won't be the last, but if I can find the complete answer, perhaps it will be the last dumb question I post here.

Why is Scott ALWAYS right?

We have all heard him say (figure of speech, because he actually typed it):

It's all about Surety and Accounting. TRUST but Verify. Figure out WHY I'm Right. Computer Science is the answer to EVERYTHING. The Majority is ALWAYS wrong. Etcetera.... (There are tons of examples)

I have not seen anyone pose this question though in all of the posts I have read on the Tender for Law group.

He has told us plenty of times however that he has not been blessed with any sort of special powers, he has the same mental faculties that we have.... So HOW does he do it?

What mechanism does he employ to solve a problem, or answer a question, or identify and dismiss bullshit that crosses his desk? And, how can I do that as well? How can I employ a systematic process of mental evaluation for any subject matter or topic that will give accurate results EVERY time?

Even more important to me though is, How can I instill that method into my offspring to ensure that they are able to think their way out of any problem on their own?

Now all of the regular contributors here have shown examples of how they work through specific questions, define the words used, cite sources, legal maxims, logical fallicies, etc. I am wondering if all of that can be wrapped up into a concise method to cut through all the crap and interference that comes up and focus on what is important.

Can computer science methodology be applied to our own brain?

I doubt that there really is a clear answer to this (frankly rather rambling) post, but this concept has been rolling around in my brain for some time now.

I am sure you have all heard the old saying about "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him forever." What if the same thing was applied to thinking critically?

Feel free to cut this to shreds guys.

Read Comments

Age Thomson

Fuck! Where's the cookie? (jk)

Seriously though, this concept has been festering within me for years, and my exposure to the content here and your "style" has pushed me into trying to seriously sort this out in my head.

There has to be some sort of "System" like a critical thinking and anti-virus software that I can install in my brain.

Scott has said in the past that we have been "programmed" this way. Well fuck it!

David-Paul Sip

:D Bravo! You have asked the same question that I have been thinking about myself for months now Adrian. I was thinking I might eventually discover the answer for myself, even realizing this may take some time because I had no clue where to begin. I'm really glad you decided to ask this question and that I'm not the only one that has wondered about this. I am also certain that there must be others who have been trying to answer this question.

Age Thomson

Like glue that holds the other pieces together? What are the other pieces though?

Scott asked us in a call not long ago, "Have you planned for what you will do if you succeed?"

He told us in a post that "Those who can THINK will survive, and those that cannot will go extinct." (paraphrased)

In another comment he said something about ... "If you spend 2 hours a day READING on the subject of your chosing, you will become an expert on that subject within 7 years..." If I want faster results, I can increase the amount of time per day :)

Well this is it for me. This is what I want to become an expert with. THINKING.

EVERY single other part of my life will fix itself if I can figure out how to fix this.

With computer science, everything is either ON/OFF, TRUE/FALSE right? So HOW does one set about to reformat their brain's operating system to work this way? But first, what EXACTLY is the new programming that I wish to install there?

Age Thomson

So far, I have come up with various pieces of the overall picture on my own, but it is not yet complete and my goal with this thread is to get HELP :)

The "lost tools of learning" essay by Dorothy Sayers alluded to the Trivium Method of Grammar/Logic/Rhetoric as was used in the schools of Plato and Aristotle. This appears to be a good "base" to start with working on reprogramming because it introduces a sytematic concept of dealing with things as they come. In many ways it also parallels with computer science in the form of input/processing/output. But, it proves to be rather difficult to install it on it's own into my brain because it is not complete. There is also issues of concentration and focus that are not readily overcome by that method alone which leaves you with wasted time. We have covered here that time is the only thing we have of any real value, and frankly I am sick of wasting it chasing rabbits down fancy holes. I want to cut straight to what is important just like Pete does with any issues we discuss on SURETY :)

The Logical Fallicies lectures by Lenonard Pekoff were quite valuable as well, which when practiced can "help" to give you a heightened "bullshit detector". It too, like anything requires practice (which is ongoing over here)

I am missing a lot of pieces though and since I don't have a picture to reference I am still lost. :(

Pete Daoust

The first thing I realized, when I decided to stop lying, is the fact that I was lying all the time....it was inevitable with the data I had....

Now, after reading every word Scott Duncan wrote, multiple time, I KNOW I'll be very alone :D , unless I choose to start lying again .... :D

As far as the new programming, I think ASKING questions (you won't have much choices left, if you stop lying) is a huge part of it....

Age Thomson

I get what you are saying Pete Daoust, and I totally agree, but it isn't complete. Lying and Belief are BIG BIG pieces, but there is more to it.

I could just read what Scott writes all day long, and I'd be better off than most. But don't you think I will get tired of ASKING Scott Duncan questions. Will he not get tired of ANSWERING?

What if we as a group here can figure out how to THINK exactly like Scott does?

Age Thomson

I footnoted them with all the definitions of the words (especially the ones I thought I knew) and then printed them. It is a very different read after I did that.

(I'm only about halfway through all the articles with the footnoting process though)

Pete Daoust

Stop the bullshit creates a MAJOR change in my life, a HUGE one....so I don't get to look for anything MORE, right now :D

Reading Scott Duncan is enough for me, I like to play SAFE..... :D

But hey, if you find a "secret", or a "code", or a special key, let me know, Adrian Thomson :D

Age Thomson

What if we look at it another way Pete Daoust. And, this is just a random unedited thought here... What if we looked at it from the approach of "How to write a computer program". Except, instead of putting it onto a pc or a mac, it's for our mind.

What would the basic steps for writing the code for a computer program be?

Age Thomson

"Reading Scott Duncan is enough for me, I like to play SAFE....."

Not for me... I want to graduate to reading the authors Scott reads... Learning about the guys HE looks up to as leaders and visionaries, and then reading about the guys THEY look up to....

Fuck the play safe bit too. There's no time left for me to play safe. I must get this down so that I can teach it to my children, otherwise they will wind up as casualties as well.

Age Thomson

First thing is first though Pete Daoust. I CLEARLY need to reformat my brain because as Scott Duncan has made SO very clear, it hurts for him to dumb shit down for us chimps.

Which brings us back to the original post...

Age Thomson

To "call a spade a spade" is a figure of speech which explicitly calls out something as it is, by its right name. The implication is not to lie about what something is and instead to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity, unpleasant, or embarrassing nature.

Will Jefferson

This thread is awesome. Maybe this was self evident but another part of it is because the right answer is the right answer and it doesn't matter who says it, 2+2=4.

I think another big part of what Pete is saying about not lying anymore is to look at just how fucking terrible people are at realizing when they're even doing it! I see it everywhere now. This alone helps me be aware of when I don't know something.

Stuart Stone

Ok, I'm going to have a stab at the question:

WHY IS SCOTT ALWAYS RIGHT?'

As a prorogued noble, (ie: one of them- no disrespect intended), his thinking is structured the same way, totally lacking in belief, because as we know, ALL BELIEF IS EVIL...this gives a massive headstart to the deprogramming we are collectively undergoing & challenging, which is in part, why we THINK WRONG AND VALUE THE WRONG THINGS...

We start the 'game' with the distinct disadvantage of faulty programming & the time drain of deprogramming/reprogramming & whether it is even possible to fully discard this programming.

So, what is the alternative to belief?

Question/hypothesise, test, validate or discard....repeat cycle ad infinitum.

This requires a significant amount of self discipline, a lack of bias, the ability to consistently apply the scientific method/computer algorithm ie: a very specific way of thinking, which explains the statement:

COMPUTER SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING.

This in turn raises another question:

IS SCOTT THE ONLY ONE WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT, OR IS THERE A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THE SAME WAY, THAT THINK CORRECTLY AND ARE CONSEQUENTLY ALWAYS RIGHT?

My thinking is that there is a group/entire community of people that can also be 'always right'.

IF Scott is the ONLY one who is ALWAYS RIGHT, then I am only able to imagine one scenario where that would be the case:

WHERE ALL THE PARAMETERS ARE UNDER HIS CONTROL, which would explain why the 'game' has already been won.

I'm sure I'm only just scratching the surface here...

James Baal

First time I read one of Scott Duncan post I knew this men is what he says he is.....when I than begun to dig deeper and verified for me what it was he is saying I realized shit this men is so much more than I thought he was......I am now a student of computer systems second year in ireland, Scott Duncan kicked my arse so hard but gave me something incredible. With every module i study especially the discrete maths last semester, I am seeing the glimpses of why Scott Duncan is always right......

Because fuck YOU that's why :-p

Age Thomson

Comments made by Pete earlier in this thread with regards to LYING have gotten me thinking, a lot, about this.

As is often the case with comments posted in the tender for law group, sometimes they are so short and simple that they seem to be at first glance cryptic. My thinking when I first arrived in this group to such comments was that they were so short and simple that they were to force you (the reader) to dig into them and find the reason that it is true on your own. That the journey to that destination will give you the understanding you need to validate the statement.

I am now starting to also see something else that is tied to this as well. And yes, it has to do with computer science :) By taking a concept and breaking it down into the smallest possible amount of words, we are simply taking the large equation and reducing it to the simplest logical answer. No extra bits required.

So Pete's comment was: "Pete Daoust Stop lying, 24/7....."

My initial thought here was "Ok, let's define lying, and then let's not do that for 7 days".

Upon looking up the definition of the word lying I came up with: 1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2: to create a false or misleading impression

Now it should not be too hard to stop doing that for 7 days right?

The easiest way I could think of to do that was to simply shut the fucking pie-hole! :) Since I know I am lazy and prefer easy, I decided to try and put this into practice. I set about on my 7 day experiment of not lying and I found that for the most part it was pretty easy to maintain, just by not speaking at all unless I really had to, and when I had to, just sticking to FACTS. I recognized some situations where I was expected to lie, and exited those situations as best I could without speaking. I found myself starting to avoid most of the people I would normally interact with, because they would constantly put me into situations where I was expected to lie. I also found that I could start seeing lies that they would tell, easier that I could spot them before.

This is quite a revelation to me, and I needed to dig further into this "lying". Perhaps if I can make this an automatic process.... Part of my brain's firmware.... Pete said that after I stopped lying, that perhaps other pieces of this puzzle would fall into place. One thing that I noticed though was with my own thoughts. I mean those ones I think without voicing... The little conversations we have with ourselves. I could see that there were lies in there, that I would tell to myself. Now THOSE will take some work I am sure.

Now most of you will recall the article Tara Duncan wrote where she spoke about lies, trust, relationships etc.... I revisited this article again with a new angle of looking at lying. It is clear that there is more to this than it appears on the surface. A slightly longer essay on lying that I found was included in that .torrent link that Scott posted a while back. (I think it was a philosophy collection). It was titled "Lying" by Sam Harris. He covers all the same points that Tara did, and a few more.

In fact, in his opening he says "I do not remember what I thought about lying before I took "The Ethical Analyst," but the course accomplished as close to a firmware upgrade of my brain as I have ever experienced. I came away convinced that lying, even about the smallest matters, needlessly damages personal relationships and public trust."

Helloss! :)

This is exactly what this thread is hopefully to uncover! How to change the firmware in our brains.... It is a very good read.

He concludes with this: "Lying is, almost by definition, a refusal to cooperate with others. It condenses lack of trust and trustworthiness into a single act. It is both a failure of understanding and an unwillingness to be understood. To lie is to recoil from a relationship.

By lying, we deny others a view of the world as it is. Our dishonesty not only influences the choices they make, it often determines the choices they CAN make - and in ways we cannot always predict. Every lie is a direct assault upon the autonomy of those we lie to. And by lying to one person, we potentially spread falsehoods to many others - even to whole societies. We also force upon ourselves subsequent choices - to maintain the deception or not - that can complicate our lives. In this way, every lie haunts our future. There is no telling when or how it might collide with reality, requiring further maintenance. The truth never needs to be tended in this way. It can simply be reiterated.

The lies of the powerful lead us to distrust governments and corporations. The lies of the weak make us callous toward the suffering of others. The lies of conspiracy theorists raise doubts about the honesty of whistleblowers, even when they are telling the truth. Lies are the social equivalent of toxic waste - everyone is potentially harmed by their spread. How would your relationships change if you resolved to never lie again? What truths might suddenly come into view in your life? What kind of person would you become? And how might you change the people around you? It is worth finding out."

Pete Daoust

:)

"And by lying to one person, we potentially spread falsehoods to many others" : You lied here, you should have used the word Man or Woman, instead of the word PERSON :D

What kind of person would you become? FUCK OFF, I am a Man :D

And how might you change the people around you? "FOLKS" would have been a better choice instead of "people" here.... :P

This was GREAT to read this morning, Adrian :)

Pete Daoust

This...

One thing that I noticed though was with my own thoughts. I mean those ones I think without voicing...

THE HELL YOU SAY.....you have no idea what the fuck up with "MY OWN THOUGHTS..... :D

Ask Scott Duncan :P

Pete Daoust

It's just me, don't forget French is my first language.......when I see you Englishes using the word PEOPLE, and/or the word PERSON, I automatically call the lie......because to me, it's a lie...

And there's not much I can do about it :/

Pete Daoust

Especially when Scott and Tara are using these words, I just can't comprehend HOW in the world they can USE these words.....it's just like that, it makes me "feel" deceived ... I don't understand WHY they use them :(

Scott Duncan

Russians get what I say faster than all of you, but they always fail. They don't know how to stop lying. It's too ingrained into their culture. Lying will keep you alive in Russia. It's not a skill they can easily give up.

Scott Duncan

From age 6 to age 21, lying was the ONLY power I had. It's hard to give up, especially if you are good at it.

...but if you are RIGHT, you don't need to lie. You don't need to take notes if you are telling the truth, and if you are overtly hostile to lies, a LOT of people will want to avoid you. NOBODY likes people who refuse to abide lies. NOBODY.

Scott Duncan

Look how upset Piece-of-Shit Christians, Piece-of-Shit Muslims, and Piece-of-Shit Jews get when i call them ADULTS with IMAGINARY FRIENDS.

They ALL KNOW it's true (or they are delusional) but they are surrounded by the same lying pieces of shit. They dare not say anything. The delusional ones who thinks the imaginary friend the nobility made, is real, will rat you out to the rest, if they suspect you no longer want to lie.

A Piece-of-Shit Muslim is ok with you being KILLED for that.

David-Paul Sip

" A slightly longer essay on lying that I found was included in that .torrent link that Scott posted a while back. (I think it was a philosophy collection). It was titled "Lying" by Sam Harris."

I think remember Tara's article but I don't remember this Torrent Adrian. I really wish to read it. Are you able to point me to this?

Age Thomson

There was an e-book collection .torrent link file that I thought you had shared (not created) back around early november. It was a collection of philosophy books in kindle format. About 150 books I think.

I think that this is the same collection. http://kickass.so/a-philosophy-collection-kindle-books-t9539438.html

So if it was not you Scott who shared it, I am sorry to have said that it was and I must be mistaken.

David-Paul Sip

Either way I appreciate the information Scott and Adrian. It is not difficult to think that the Admiral may have shared such a Torrent link though as I've never heard anyone else talk about it ever. Folks either do not know they lie, do not think they lie, don't know what a fucking lie is,or lie so fucking often they don't notice the lies anymore. Sounds like I should approach this with great caution Capitaine Pete lol!

Scott Duncan

Derek Moran is a good example. :D

The WORST part is yet to come for him. It will happen in his 60s. He'll realize that he wasted all those years circle-jerking to clubhouse rules for a club he's not part of. He'll remember my warnings, and my eventual contempt for him, and he will become me, in that respect; We'll BOTH feel the same contempt for Derek Moran.

...all part of the great CIRCLE OF ..STUFF.

Pete Daoust

Here�s the typical conversation. Me : I don�t CLAIM it, I just made a DECISION to be it. Fucktards: But, but bWHO gave you that right? Me: ME !! :/ Fucktard: How could you? Me: Because I �HAVE� it !! Fucktard: You can�t do that !! Me: WHY Fucktard: Because. Me: Because WHAT ? Fucktard: Well, you didn�t create it, it�s not yours Me: SO FUCKING WHAT ? Fucktard:

Michael Atkins

This will make my brain explode. I have been making a conscious effort not to lie. To myself as well. Its very difficult. I get very angry too because I can now see the layers of shit we wade through just to fucking lie to one another. And like a jackass I am supposed to fucking smile and keep up appearances.

David-Paul Sip

"And like a jackass I am supposed to fucking smile and keep up appearances" NO Michael, that's a choice I no longer wish to entertain. Too much effort. Say what you mean and MEAN what you say. I feel much better telling someone to FUCK OFF with all the contempt and disdain I can muster :D

Tara Duncan

Michael: You should never lie to yourself. You'll eventually find out and you'll be very unhappy.

Lying to people important to you, to spare their feelings, is also not a good idea. This does not mean you should phrase the truth in such a way as to intentionally upset or hurt them (although this is sometimes unavoidable given the nature of human beings). Not lying does not have to mean abandoning diplomacy. If you tell your wife you love that meal you just gagged down, she'll make it again, and again, and again. If those jeans really do make someone's ass look fat, better you save them the potential embarrassment of exposing this fact to the general public.

Lying to acquaintances or strangers...why bother? Lie maintenance is complicated and exhausting, and if you're caught lying your credibility is shot - maybe forever.

This does not mean you should always feel obligated to tell everyone everything. Our idiot upbringings often had the "speak when you're spoken to" crap that is hard to shake to this day. In most cases you can choose what information to disseminate or say nothing - what obligates you to offer full disclosure to the masses, or, for that matter, to lie?

If you live to your own expectations, and do only things which fall in line with your moral imperative, you can tell the truth with impunity. You'll like yourself more, anyone who matters will eventually admire and count on your candor, and you can free up your brain for more important things like learning and enjoying your stress-free, guilt-free life.

Tara Duncan

There's an old joke where a midget comes up to a strikingly tall and beautiful woman and tells her he's going to fuck her senseless all night long. She turns to him and exclaims, "If you do, and I find out about it...." This is sort of like that.