The Tender For Law

Volume 3

Aug 26, 2013 11:42 AM

Anibal Jose Baez

I am respectfully requesting (see what I did there?) Admiral Scott Duncan to explain/share, if it is his wish (see what I did there?),: how must one deal with a "police" encounter" outside of the courtroom? How to deal with "thugs-with-guns" at our door step? How to deal with "thugs-with-guns" when they turn their lights on us (without having committed any crime), while on the road? How to deal with "thugs-with-guns" knocking at our vehicle windows? What to do when asked for "ID"?

I, myself, have watched many videos of "success" at border patrol checkpoints, DUI checkpoints, open carry situations, and very few at people's doorsteps. Some have similarities, but none are the same. Apparently, it also depends in the level of "experience" these "public officials" have dealing with "difficult" "persons".

Many other videos I've seen are made by "attorneys". All they say is: "I don't consent to searches," "I'm not gonna talk, unless in front of my lawyer." "Never, under any circumstances talk to cops, not without a lawyer." All those answers that still pin surety on us.

I have also watched other attempts to deal with police, which not only are unnecessarily confrontational, but plain DUMB. You've seen what happens to those.

What is the key to all this? If it's all about surety, and accounting (involving contract), how must one deal when dealing with a police encounter? Thanks!

Read Comments

Eamonn O Brien

If I encounter the "law" on the road again I will quickly ascertain whether or not there has been a crime of which they are investigating and need my assistance, or if they suspect me of a crime. If not then I would tell them that I do not understand the nature of their stopping me. I think it was Dean Clifford who said court starts at the side of the road...

Nothing you say will stop them from doing what they believe they have the authority to do... Statutes are the law of the land to these people. In training I'd imagine they too are lied to through omission...

I was arrested over a yr ago and was before a court within 2 hrs... The arresting guard was speaking with the sergeant explaining that I was totally un-cooperative, not answering any questions etc. The sergeant said something to him then and he became quite annoyed restating how un-cooperative I had been. In my opinion the sergeant knew they had nothing and it pissed the guard off... I folded however not having near enough knowledge or balls to stand my ground...

Mo Chara Do Chara

I had a car stolen from me yesterday on my way out for no fancy papers in me window they don't care the pig told me that himself road traffic act horse shit I told him that shit didn't apply to me cause I don't work for the government long story short they don't give a fuck so why should I

Eamonn O Brien

You could try the notice of mistake and see how you get on... Notice in lieu of identification also... I haven't had the misfortune of running into them since the last time yet... I did back in Feb but it was late at night and I don't think he was bothered with paperwork and waiting for a tow truck etc...

Anibal Jose Baez

I have many questions concerning this particular matter. 1- Is remaining silent AT ALL TIMES, regardless of who asks the questions, any crime? What's "the charge"? 2- If "government" is a fiction, if they are De Facto "governments", if cops are complete STRANGERS, and I haven't sworn an Oath: would it not be DELUSIONAL to stop, and/or talk to "fictions" and/or complete strangers that WE KNOW are out to HARM us? 3- If we know WE are NOT the name, why would we respond/act on behalf of it? 4- Wouldn't just talking to a cop presume authority already? If "laws/statues" don't apply to ME, then what am I doing talking to a cop, even if it is to ask questions? 5- If there is no authority of a man over another man, unless by consent and/or voodoo doodoo, why even acknowledge their presence when "speaking"?

What the heck do I know? But, there has to be a key to all this.

I know REALITY is that there is people with guns out there with a license to kill, if one is not "obedient," regardless of what we "believe" and/or think.

I really wish Scott would shed some light on <<If it's all about surety, and accounting (involving contract), how must one deal when dealing with a police encounter?>>

Eamonn O Brien

Point 2 - I think it's safe to assume that cops are dealing with crime until we determine otherwise. Then we choose our words carefully as court is in session. Plus we don't know they are out to harm us...

Point 3 - Only when we wish to contract and fully understand the terms & conditions of doing so

Ponts 4 - Cops aren't gonna wallop you as soon as you converse with them... Giving them the time of day isn't ceding jurisdiction... If they attempt to engage you there having been no crime then it's question time for them...

Point 5 - (See point 4) :)

The Guards (Cops) here in Ireland are unarmed gun wise so the element of threat is somewhat less than that in America and Canada etc... Ignorance is plentiful, no need for weapons... :(

Chris Evan

This is great! I have been thinking about this too Max. I am thinking about the next time I get pulled over.....I want to give them a short document through a slightly opened window (doors locked) with who I am, what capacity I am operating in, and my fee schedule. Then I think I will keep my hands on the wheel and shut up. Pete may suggest to me keeping my hands in my pocket. Either they break in and rip me out, or I travel off. I am not sure how it will end up, but I will never have identified myself to them as a person in their jurisdiction.

David Johansen

chris, what your describing is the scroll i mentioned to you. a wax seal document can also be a scroll with a ribbon that YOU issue to them and is a slider contract they become obligated to simply by accepting it.

August le Blanc

Nice fucking thread Maximiliano P�rez... I think we are to think for ourselves on this one... That being said there is great strength in knowing. From that springs confidence that you are a me... The principles don't change... Accounting and Surety - always with/without consent... Standing your ground in a calm reasoned manner until you cant'. Grace under fire... 72 hours in holding or maybe a train ride... Cameras on... no surety from you thank you... one wishes to go.. I saw what you did there... ;-) The notice of mistake after the fact or during, submitted into the file... Viva voce in front of the J.P. Silence... Keeping one's wits about them is paramount... #1

Robert Cormier

Warning! The following link is from a lawyer. I came across it years ago and it seemed to make so much sense at the time when I first began "my search for freedom". Now, I'm not so sure, as I'm starting to get that silence equals consent. Yet some confusion remains. For example, as inferred above, if I am the master of my own affairs, must I answer to men/women who identify themselves as fictitious persons? In this link, at 8:23 the lawyer suggests that you only speak to police if they consent to granting you immunity, to which he immediately advises that the police will never grant you immunity from what you say, so that option is pie in the sky. From there he goes on to provide the "top ten" reasons you should never speak to police. Many of the points he raises (even though he is a lawyer) still make sense to me generally. at the very least this video provides insight how justices, police and prosecutors/lawyers think and scheme to nail you to their cross. Perhaps silence is a good idea for an absolute newbie. As for me, should I find myself confronted by a fiction, being controlled by a man or woman with a gun, I am determined and prepared to keep repeating "Am I free to go? and "am I being detained?" until such time as I am allowed to go about my business, or, placed under arrest. I may also hand out a card similar to the one postcard created by Beverly Girl-Brain Braaksma. Anyways, I too am really enjoying this thread. Thanks Maximiliano P�rez. Input on this welcome as always. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Anibal Jose Baez

I have some more questions. No doubt that the "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" mantra has seem to work in many occasions, apparently.

But, 1- does not the questions "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" already imply/presumes authority, master/servant? 2- If "they" really don't have ANY authority, why ask those questions? 3- Does my freedom depends on the arbitrary decision of a stranger, low ranking fictitious character, impersonator of a public official, that can act as accuser and judge at the same time? 4- Why would a REAL free man beg/ask for permission, to another man, to be "free to go"? 5- Can any other man really hold that much power over another man, without consent? 6- Wouldn't it be DELUSIONAL to ask a complete stranger if one is "free to go"? 7- If there is such thing as IMMUNITY, would that have to be GRANTED by an AUTHORITY, or is something you just proclaim in some paper, saying you just have it, "because I say so"?

What the heck do I know?

Anibal Jose Baez

"We think wrong, and value the wrong things." I think one of the reasons Scott says we will never get trust law, or act as KINGS, is because the way our brains were/are programmed.

We are programed to NEVER be in the position of authority. Always looking for approval. Always asking for permission. Always asking for guidance, and direction. Always asking for instructions. Never fully taking responsibility, wanting for "government", and/or others, to "do shit for us", to tell us what to do, or what not to do. I smell some hardcore voodoo-doodoo in all that.

Howard Posehn

Some people have mentioned this before and I think that the way Dean Clifford puts it is a good way of telling them, instead of asking shit of Cops or anyone. "Do you have a Claim against me?,� should be all that you have to repeat to any question that they ask if they ever come for you or stop you. They may still take you, but stick with the question of a Bona fide Claim against you. If they have not witness any breach of Peace, or suspect you of intending to, or of having committing an indictable offense, you have no business with them. No Writ, No Claim, No Warrant. Remember, they are talking to the man now, trying to get him to be surety. Cop: "What is your name?" Me: "Do you have a claim against me?" Cop: �What is your name?� Me: �Look, you either produce a claim against me or I�m leaving right now.� AND LEAVE! [�or release me right now,� if arrested.] What ever you decide to use, STICK TO IT. Cop: "You will be taken before a judge in the morning." Me: "Does he have a claim against me?"

Pepper Wagner

Robert Cormier, Yes like your comment. I am finding that I LOVE talking to cops until they get so uncomfortable they run or stomp back to their cars. I got arrested this July and charged with "obstruction" . when He read me my rights I told him "I know my rights, now let me read you yours...He stomped away yelling at me "ARE YOU DONE YET....ARE YOUU DONE YETTT. I Said "NO". The charges never got filed....But some disclosures arrived today...and yes I plan to make good on that "anything you say or do can and will be used against you in a court of law... Now with that said the silent part is also being used againt people....You must object, rebut loudly. They now are saying ohh oh you don't have to sign that...(because the last time had 4 corners rule, under protest, all rights reserved).If you know who you are I think it will go further than just doing everything right, because they are changing and bending the rules and most of the cops don't even know. I try to speak to these Policy enforcers with words they would hear from a judge or a superior officer, such as are you now "fabricating evidance", "you are out of uniform"....I try to turn everything back on them until they finnaly realize how stupid they sound...