Aug 08, 2013 5:52 PM

ACCEPTED FOR VALUE - IS IT JUST AN INTERNET MEME? IS IT REAL? IS Scott Duncan going to SNAP with all the stupid questions? FIND OUT HERE! (updated August 8, 2013)

Derek Moran: LIGHTBULB just went off! > (PROPER NOTICE because a BILL is a TENDER FOR LAW).

As in- how can any CORPORATION deny you the ability to discharge your debt by way of the bill-payment-remittance THEY, sent YOU, in the first place?!? (Scott clicked LIKE)

Derek Moran: ... a BILL is a TENDER FOR LAW.......did THEY, not TENDER it to ME??

Derek Moran: HOLY FUCK- so theres no need to go through all this Liening of the Property Tax Account Statement-instrument they sent us even to begin with..just accept the TENDER FOR LAW they offered us by sending in the bill-payment-remittance they provided!!! (Scott clicked LIKE)

Scott Duncan: TENDER=CONDITIONALLY OPEN TO OFFERS.

In this example I am going to use Gail Blackman.

If you go to our corporate mail server http://mail.cdd.com, you will see a TENDER.

In this tender you can use CASH, or "Serviced" for service.

There are conditions. If she wishes to offer one of these for my services, she must abide buy the conditions.

If she arrives at the table with empty pockets, she is aware that she must bend over that table and lift her skirt. Business has not commenced, even though she'd clearly "means business", by doing that.

After she is "serviced", she is now qualified to avail herself of the services I offer.

...all sexual performance after the terms of the offer are fulfilled is purely recreational, and has nothing to do with the tender... like a tip. Server - mail.cdd.com - NO COMMERCE EXPECTED and/or IMPLIED mail.cdd.com Server - mail.cdd.com - NO COMMERCE EXPECTED and/or IMPLIED mail.cdd.com

Derek Moran: I know-HUH??...what are they gonna do- take you court??.."You're the FUCKIN' guys who sent it to me in the first-place..i just accepted YOUR, OFFER!" (Scott clicked LIKE)

Scott Duncan: THEY TENDERED, YOU ACCEPTED.

Gail Blackman: hmm let's see if I'm getting this....I could present you with a counter conditional offer ? and is this what we are doing when we send money when we receive a bill? (Scott clicked LIKE)

Scott Duncan: Yes... And I can reject the counteroffer, as I am the one who offered the tender. YOU would have to come to ME to do business. It's not COMMERCE as it is not an advertisement. YOU must SEEK OUT the tender.

Derek Moran: As in, the City possibly saying- "Oh no, we dont accept payment THAT way."...."OH??..then WHY, did YOU, SEND it, to ME, in the FIRST PLACE???" (Scott clicked LIKE)

Gail Blackman: so people are trying to pay their bills A4V, when all they have to do is to return the bill stating they accept the offer/tender which is the bill? (Scott clicked LIKE)

Scott Duncan: Yes Gail.

Scott Duncan: Gail Blackman, what does the STAMP on a cancelled cheque mean?

Gail Blackman: accepted?

Scott Duncan: See? Easy, and you didn't even have to put out.

Gail Blackman: when sending it back..we simply write "Accept" on it? and if they question it, suggest they refer it to their legal dept?

Gail Blackman: the question would come from their own ignorance...like no one ever "pays" like that...im sure they are only used to counter offers of money?

Derek Moran: GAIL- i have a friend who has Crawford and Falconbridge's Bills of Exchange book which he said says, all you have to print is ACCEPT at the top of the bill...'ACCEPTED-FOR-VALUE,' ACCEPT-FOR-VALUE, or A4V, is not necessary

Beverly Girl-Brain Braaksma: And send it back to the offerer?

Derek Moran: ..id take a photocopy of it before you registered-mail it

Gail Blackman: I agree..I'm talking more about accounts receivable clerks who would receive the confirmation of acceptance...and put you in the list for not "paying" and cut your services

Pete Daoust: You sent a registered mail envelop.??...how can they cut your service ???

Derek Moran: The bank they ultimately deal with, will turn your $100 property-tax-bill-payment-remittance, into $2300 worth of credit.. credit the $100 back to the City.. leaving $2200 leftover for the bank to try and rule-the-world with even more with it

Derek Moran: AND..........it all started with YOUR signature, they reverse-engineered everything we THOUGHT we knew about money

Scott Duncan: NO. You accepted the TENDER.

The dozy broad in accounts will escalate the issue to management. It USUALLY pays out like Derek describes.

Gail Blackman: I guess this is why they are soooo keen on automatic withdrawl to pay bills....they push it as a convenience for you but really it's for their own benefit...knew I never liked that offer

Gail Blackman: So I'm clear....all i have to do is write "Accepted" on the bill and return it registered mail?

Derek Moran: ..there are a number of other things id do to it myself, Gail Blackman

Chad Brodgesell: @ Derek Moran, that's just 'fractional reserve banking though' isn't it?

Derek Moran: Yup. Banks legally are allowed to counterfeit credit, basically. In Canada, the Fractional-Reserve-Rate/Ratio, is called either the CAPITAL ADEQUACY REQUIREMENT, or the ASSET CAPITAL MULTIPLE. However, no promissory note-representing-debt + your signature = NO, CREDIT, for THEM. The rate is 23 in Canada, btw.

Chad Brodgesell: Nicely put. Was just checking cause we use different terms. I use general and you guys use the proper ones. This is how I approached the bank when I got my credit. I didn't know it was 23:1 though thought it was 12:1.

Derek Moran: Barrons Law, BILL: a PROPOSITION or statement reduced to writing. In commercial law, an "account for goods sold, services rendered and work done."

Derek Moran: BILL(LEGISLATION): a draft of a PROPOSED statute submitted to the legislature for enactment.

Chad Brodgesell: I fired off a letter a while back asking the bank to clarify that it was my signature that created the credit to begin with and that on fractional reserve they had already been paid as their balance sheet would indicate and can they please send me a statement of account that was SIGNED by an authorized person. In 2 weeks time they had sold the account to a collection agency, never did get back to me. Not sure what I did was/is right but got them off my back.

Derek Moran: BILL(NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS): Bills are all forms of paper money. see PROPOSITION, PROPOSED above

Chad Brodgesell: well that was like a year ago, but last week I fired off reg mail to the collection agency for them to produce a valid claim against me and if they could not do so then a charge of $10k for them to keep bothering me. I'll see how it goes.

Chad Brodgesell: This is the problem most of the time. Some stuff works but no one will verify WHAT it is that works.

Chad Brodgesell: Now I don't know what this is worth, but, EVERY time I ask for a SIGNATURE from who ever is whatever with me....the door slams shut.

Chad Brodgesell: I did get my former boss to ask the bank who was the GRANTOR of one of his buildings. Next week he told me he didn't want to talk about it.

Derek Moran: CHAD- ask the bank for this: "...for the original instrument of indebtedness in its original form."

Derek Moran: The problem is, when we all opened-up a bank-account and never read the 10-page contract, they had language that apparently waived our right to discharge bill-payment-remittances in it. But, you cannot waive a right unless you did it with the express intent to.

Derek Moran: on a financial instrument, you sign- 'without recourse'

Chad Brodgesell: Just asked for A SIGNED document back saying that (in my very fukked up wording) what I said wasn't true. I then found out they sold the account. m, can't say sold, they just called and said the matter had been 'sent' to collections.

Derek Moran: "the original instrument of indebtedness," is a promissory note, which considered to be the money you created with your signature.. and yes, they wont want to provide the original because its probably been marked-up from being Fraction-Banked, and evidence the bank has ALREADY been paid.

Chad Brodgesell: so, in essence thru basic general english I asked them to DENY that they already had been paid as soon as I signed,,on the dotted line.?

Derek Moran: You know what- on second thought, someone brought-up a good point..not only do i think the SIN# doesnt have to be on the BILL-payment-remittance, like someone said, i think it would be construed as a tacit-agreement that you're a Government-employee by doing that...maybe Scott can verify that one way or the other

Kelleran Holman: Derek, does this notice then suggest that you agree that you are liable to a certain debt (it applies to you) to the Corp of Toronto, and now want to sort methods of settlement?

Derek Moran: Good point.. they are not presenting it to Derek Moran.. they are presenting it to DEREK MORAN, they are just trying to get Derek Moran to act as SURETY for it

Derek Moran: Kelleran- im doing this keeping in mind, that we do use the water..and they do pick-up our garbage-and-recycling.. this about enforcing the right to DISCHARGE debt, as opposed to PAYING them property-taxes with legal-tender from out of our pockets

Derek Moran: I dont think it will make my fathers life easier for him by saying- "Just tell the City you dont feel like paying taxes anymore".. the City has given him the REMEDY, which is the bill-payment-remittance..im just trying to get him to wrap his mind around how credit is created

Derek Moran: "As I have already noted, a promissory note, by definition, involves an unconditional promise to pay a sum certain in money, but it is not itself money...there is no liquidation of the debt until it is DISCHARGED..."

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1977/1977canlii36/1977canlii36.html CanLII - 1977 CanLII 36 (SCC) www.canlii.org Bay Bus Terminal (North Bay) Limited and Bay Bus Terminal (North Bay) Limited na...See More

James Baal: Notice = valuable instrument = bill of exchange, exchange of what? Value .. Value= promissionary note, bond.... well debt! Government Notices are notifying of outstanding Value? Its up to me here how to tackle it, "its an offer"? I can Accept it for value, just create another promissioary note, or assume liabilty and act as surety and offer banknotes...or coupons...????

Jason F. LeBlanc: James, One suggest reading the bills of Exchange act and the Bank act. Empower yourself.

Adam Thomas: Yeah Jim. Do what jason says mate. Then it'll all fall into place. NEVER EVER PAY WITH MONEY ( legal tender) IN THEIR COURTS. Use a BoE instead PERFECT.

Adam Thomas: ORDERS also come under BOE. Judge ORDERS ye to no longer bend over & clutch ankles. YOU AMEND THE ORDER YOURSELF. Fuck this stuff is sooo POWERFUL.... I wonder what would happen if it actually fell into the wrong persons hands ?

Derek Moran http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/45-46/61 Bills of Exchange Act 1882 www.legislation.gov.uk An Act to codify the law relating to Bills of Exchange, Cheques, and Promissory Notes.

Sonja Ruebsaat: can someone tell me more about how to go about this: "Wise-man once said to get a STAMP made up for the back of any bill-payment-remittances you want to try using to discharge debt with... and what would that STAMP read, for it to be most effective exactly?" I heard there is a stamp you can get made...connected to your bond...some sort of personal insignia and then you also write something on the bill/debt that it should be paid from your bond...

Derek Moran: The STAMP, as i was told, is for the purpose of getting across the MESSAGE you want to CONVEY to the biller you're hoping has SOMEONE with the slightest knowledge of the purpose the bill-payment-remittance/coupon/voucher at the bottom of any particular BILL you are TENDERED from a biller is.

Derek Moran: For instance- lets say a STAMP has room for only 4 or 5 lines on it...this is what I would put on MINE:

BILLS OF EXCHANGE ACT, 1985 section 3. Thing done in good faith section 9. Common law of England section 57.1 Presumption of value (the most important one of all) �value� means valuable consideration.

Derek Moran: If someone being paid a job to do on the other end doesnt understand any of this then that is not my fault..hire someone who is LEGALLY COMPETENT to deal with this. They TENDERED you a BILL, not to pay your debt, but, to DISCHARGE it, as PAYMENT of a debt is an IMPOSSIBILITY in lieu of GOLD being suspended-as-payment since 1933, and, you ACCEPTED it - what are they going to do, take you to court and tell the Judge that you had THE NERVE to ACCEPT what THEY tendered/OFFERED to you??

Derek Moran: Apparently, what i was told, is that CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND=BIRTH CERTIFICATE, and BIRTH CERTIFICATE=CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND, and that the Consolidated Revenue Fund is actually mentioned in the Bills of Exchange Act, but, i was unable to find it.

Derek Moran: Things i am fuzzy on were, where the STAMP goes on the bill-payment-remittance; the front, or the back. Another one, was that the bill-payment-remittance should be mailed registered-mail to THE BANK OF CANADA, as the Bank of Canada is the ONLY organization in 'Canada' that is able to create money/CREDIT from our SIGNATURE. They can do this, as the Bank of Canada as i understand it ultimately, is the one holding onto our SECURITY OF THE PERSON in their Clearing and Settlements House; not sure if that is exactly the TREASURY BOARD SECRETARIAT, or, CDS Clearing and Depository Services Inc. Another one was, register-mailing it straight to the Bank of Canada without the second-signature presumably from the biller already on it, as Scott has driven-home-the-point enough times that you MUST have TWO SIGNATURES (us, the biller), and, a TRUSTEE (the Bank of Canada); this begs the question whether or not it should be register-mailed back to the BILLER first for it to be the second-signature, then, they send the bill-payment-remittance now with TWO SIGNATURES into the Bank of Canada if they want to get 'paid.' (Scott clicked 'Like' on this)

Derek Moran: Another important point was that it is the BILL, not the INSTRUMENT/REMITTANCE which is marked ACCEPT, but the BILL, meaning the upper-portion of the document NORTH of the perforated-edging-line you ultimately tear across. You DO NOT mark ACCEPT on the INSTRUMENT itself. You are ACCEPTING the BILL. Then, using the INSTRUMENT/REMITTANCE, to DISCHARGE, the BILL. (Scott clicked 'Like' on this)

Scott Duncan: http://bit.ly/ZQ6GC4

Blake Gardner: I just indorse the private side and add my account number/social number, then send it to the CFO or the like with a brief cover letter outlining the tender and requesting a statement of zero account.

Derek Moran: "I just indorse the private side".... what exactly does that mean- "the PRIVATE side"?.. i get lost in the whole public-side/private-side lingo

Blake Gardner: The back of the instrument:-) like a cheque... The front is the public side...

Derek Moran: So FRONT=PUBLIC=GOVERNMENT side... BACK=PRIVATE=US/OUR side, hmmm interesting. I would've assumed as US being the first-signature, that it just would've been put on the FRONT of the instrument...

Scott Duncan: Look at any promissory note. It is always "BACKED BY" someone/something.

Adam Thomas: Signature = SURETY.

Blake Gardner: "Backed by" - "indorsed" = on the back of...

Also as far as two signatures go, look up the word mark & seal - mark/logo/letterhead etc., is considered as their mark/signature/certification. So the front of these presentments/instruments usually have such identifying marks...it's also the reason most corporate correspondence usually comes without a signature but a letterhead/logo or the like instead.

Derek Moran: Ohhh ok, so Scott, this is what you meant by when you said register-mail the bill-payment-remittance straight to the Bank of Canada, because, the biller already has their MARK/SEAL/SIGNATURE on the front of the instrument/remittance?

Derek Moran: What required of corporation

5. In the case of a corporation, where, by this Act, any instrument or writing is required to be signed, it is sufficient if the instrument or writing is duly sealed with the corporate seal, but nothing in this section shall be construed as requiring the bill or note of a corporation to be under seal.

http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-4/page-2.html#h-3 PART IGENERAL - Bills of Exchange Act lois-laws.justice.gc.ca Federal laws of canada

Blake Gardner: Remittance is money sent by one person to another, either in specie, bill of ex- change, check, or otherwise.

Derek Moran: Corporate Seal for the City of Toronto, although, i dont ever recall actually SEEING this before, let alone on the bill-payment-remittances:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/1184_237.pdf

Derek Moran: Another question is how exactly is the proper way to MARK a bill-payment-remittance for proper presentment-and-acceptance. Section 190. explains somewhat how a Consumer bill or note is to be marked. Other than that, as i understand it:

1. Print ACCEPT on the face of the BILL-payment remittance

2. the empty AMOUNT-BOX needs to be filled in..give'em a $10 tip so as to less of a reason to be mad with you

3. your SIGNATURE (thats a biggy) on the BACK (think 'Backed by'), not front, the BACK of the INSTRUMENT/REMITTANCE

4. putting WITHOUT RECOURSE after your SIGNATURE, just in case they want to scare you with some legalese-talk

5. putting the DATE on it would seem like a good idea

6. the STAMP/MESSAGE you want to CONVEY to them (not sure whether on front or back)

7. ???????????????????????

http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-4/page-38.html#h-28 PART V CONSUMER BILLS AND NOTES - Bills of Exchange Act lois-laws.justice.gc.ca Federal laws of canada

ChiefRock Sino General: man, what is everyone going on about here. I can send them a friggin piece of used toilet paper, IF THEY KEEP IT , its agreed as accepted and settled. If i write 1000000 on it and sign, they keep it, its agreed its good for settlement. Retention is key here. Know how to hold your contract. its simple stop getting so god damn complicated and focusing on public laws and statues and this and that. If they keep it we got ourselves a binding agreement. Bills of exchange act can be good to keep them in line but just know, if it is kept its good as gold. who knows what benefit they got out of the used piece but i dont really care. If they send it back, they discharged the account to zero. Its a win win people !!!!!!!!

Adam Thomas: 3 days. 72 hours. SETTLED & CLOSED.

Blake Gardner: Go chief go...! A contract "if" you can keep it....exactly.... amidst the psychological onslaught of pre indoctrination & post neuro linguistic programming....private international law/contract. (Scott clicked 'Like' on this)

Adam Thomas: INCHOATE INSTRUMENT ACCEPTED FOR VALUE RETURNED COMPLETE SUPRA PROTEST PAY THE SUM CERTAIN OF ONE AUSTRALIAN DOLLAR

Adam Thomas: RECEIVED BY..............

Adam Thomas: Signature & date the above STAMP

Adam Thomas: STAMP DUTY PAID

Adam Thomas: SEE OVER FOR INDORSEMENTS

Adam Thomas: ACCEPTED AS INDORSED

Adam Thomas: NON NEGOTIABLE NON TRANSFERRABLE WITHOUT RECOURSE

Adam Thomas: 5cent stamp on front. ALL INSTRUMENTS MUST HAVE " VALUABLE CONSIDERATION".

Adam Thomas: $1 Australian stamp. PAID...SETTLED....CLOSED....ZEROING OF ACC...

Adam Thomas: The NON NEGOTIABLE ETC ETC RUBBER STAMP GOES ACROSS THE TOP OF THE BoE. In RED INK.

Adam Thomas: ALL RUBBER STAMPS ARE RED INK

Adam Thomas: I hope that helps paint a picture of what the RUBBER STAMPS LOOK LIKE...visualize them stamps.

Derek Moran: Hey Adam- so, just to play Devils Advocate here...i dont get the whole 5cent-stamp/$1 stamp stuff; to me, its quite clear what is considered the VALUABLE CONSIDERATION, it says it right there at least in OUR BoE here in 'Canada' in section 57.1:

57. (1) Every party whose signature appears on a bill is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, deemed to have become a party thereto for value.

http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-4/page-12.html#h-11 Holder in Due Course - Bills of Exchange Act lois-laws.justice.gc.ca Federal laws of canada

Derek Moran: (Scott clicked 'Like' on this) 57. (1) "...SIGNATURE...IS...THE...VALUE"

Of course, this is where Scott has wrote before that they like to keep the pieces spread-out and in different spots;

�value� means valuable consideration.

http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-4/page-1.html#h-2

Aladdin Sane: "Hey Adam- so, just to play Devils Advocate here...i don't get the whole 5cent-stamp/$1 stamp stuff;" A few years back, a man from Alberta posted photos of his setoff/discharge (to Enmax, I think, or some other utility company,) and on it he had a postal stamp that he signed through, and then about a year ago, I seen this cheque written by Abe Lincoln with a 2 cent stamp in the right top area also with a scribble through it from the top right corner diagonally. Scott, can you tell me why this stamp with a signature through it is added?

Aladdin Sane: Forgot the link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086848/Check-President-Abraham-Lincoln-wrote-day-killed-discovered-bank-vault.html

Aladdin Sane: Is the UPU the highest jurisdiction?

Blake Gardner: Value/consideration

Blake Gardner: Currency

Adam Thomas: Its LAWFUL CURRENCY. NOT LEGAL TENDER.

Adam Thomas: TRUST LAW IS THE HIGHEST....WANK...

Blake Gardner: And what is a trust but a contract:-)

Derek Moran: TRADING STAMPS has its own section in the Criminal Code here in Canada. Kate of Gaia has covered about how people have no idea just how much of an influence the UPU has over the rest of the world. Theres some sort of document out there that covers it at length too..a treaty, i think

David Johansen YOU cancel the stamp which enjoins them as a party, subjecting the document to mail fraud if it is not accepted

Shawn Ofthefamily Folkes: I think I liked Chiefrocks answer the best... But if we are talking about affixing stamps and all that... The UPU is considered higher than any government, hence the power of the stamp...which, as I have come to understand it, is to be affixed to the BACK bottom corner. That is the very end of the document....kinda like you having the last say, and is to be signed diagonally in certain colors, like purple or gold. Some stuff: http://www.likumi.lv/doc.php?id=195295

Shawn Ofthefamily Folkes: Some better stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc4h9Qi9brs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Shawn Ofthefamily Folkes ...after oh....three or four minutes into the above video....youll quickly see why I prefer to stick to chiefs response lol

Blake Gardner: Yeah - simplicity is easier to hold, communicate and stand on:-)

Derek Moran: Reprobata pecunia liberat solventem. Money refused releases the person paying (or offering payment).

Derek Moran:i think theres another Maxim in there somewhere that basically says the same thing, too

Adam Thomas: Thats what the $1 aussie postage stamp is. PAYMENT.

Adam Thomas: Paying a fiction with a fiction. Perfect.

Adam Thomas: A $1 stamp with the queen is even better.

Adam Thomas: Its THEIR VALUE BELIEF SYSTEM. Use it to settle any & every ALLEGED DEBT.

Adam Thomas: It cost $1.

Blake Gardner: Stamps have recognized/authorized value/currency in the public.

Blake Gardner: Alternatively you can just use your signature if one dollar is too much, as obligation-debt is money...tender for law...payment for contract:-)

Adam Thomas: I just leart this absolute HEAD FUCK OF A WORD. SUBSTANTIAL EQUIVALENCE. Off topic I know but that would be the 2 words that lawyers the world over would be spanking themselves stupid over. It's the LAWYERS WHORE.The English language.

Derek Moran: my favourite two-word terms: ULTRA VIRES...PRIMA FACIE...MALA FIDES

Blake Gardner: Like the Jesuit justification for everything is EQUIVOCATION - the doctrine of mental reservation/equivocation has a lot of relevance in judiciary, me thinks:-)

Shawn Ofthefamily Folkes You can actually use your thumb print....if we are gonna go down the stamp road. And yes Blake... that public should be Public...as in universal public. It (stamps) certainly have an assigned value. The basic unit I believe is $.02 U.S. this is the lowest universal standard for the minimum cost of a stamp. It is the most basic tender for law, your most basic payment for contract, because when governments fail some system must be in place that ensures exchanges can occur between peoples in the case old government failure and collapse so a new one can be reestablished . A system has to be in place (and is) where people can continue to do shit -like contract with each other, the basis of all shit, and have some universal system in place so that shit can get done, no matter what....including what currency. This is where a completely electronic currency would should and will come in place....for one thing...no borders. No empty Forts full of metals we rape out of the ground that are more available in countries that....without it....would contribute Jack shit to the global economy. Other than our fucking greed, gold, for example, like silver and copper....makes a great conductor for electronics and should be used and valued as such.

Anyhow.... I get why sheeps dont get shit. See...it all begins with understanding that money is debt. They CANNOT admit that. Once you admit that the answer is very simple: get rid of money and you get rid of debt. And since most politicians talk about debt, youd be getting rid of the need for most of them. Most of the "police" people wouldnt be needed. Youd be getting rid of greed....like our greed for gold thats really just another fucking metal. That I don't believe in. But nooooo you cant get rid of money because money is debt and debt exists to fuel greed and getting rid of greed? there's too much money in that. Money....? Ah!

Adam Thomas: POLLEX = THUMB PRINT = BETTER THAN SIGNATURE!!

Adam Thomas: BoE Act is near on identical except for a few different words here & there.

Joseph Davia: Here in NZ theres a guy on fb - look/search for "Pirate Bill Turner NZ" he has a few vids on there regarding this subject....but have had a friend try this process to pay ACC levies - they sent it all back to him stating they don't accept this form of payment and threatened him with "using a document to gain pecuniary advantage" they also quoted the law regarding stamp duty in NZ but they still refused the payment.

Adam Thomas: It's a Bill of Exchange. They're in total DISHONOUR. CHECK MATE FOOLS !!

Blake Gardner: Payment (instrument) refused without a notice of defect in the instrument or notice of dishonor from the drawee is discharge of debt - plus all that you would request in an affidavit signed under full commercial liability and penalty of perjury. Also if their statement contained a direct threat without the use of may or might ect, that's a tort...

Gerry Cardinalli: Blake Gardner... ACC here in NZ replied with "You have attempted to produce an inchoate instrument under the Bills of Exchange Act 1908. We do not accept this form of payment." New Zealands Law takes its definitions from Butterworth's Law Dictionary which defines the word 'inchoate' as the following... "Begun but not completed. An inchoate offence is a preliminary offence such as attempt, conspiracy or incitement. An inchoate instrument is a partial or unfinished document or enactment. See Bills of Exchange Act 1908, s20.

Joseph Davia: thanks Gerry - I didn't have the exact wording relating to their reply-still a refusal to accept is still a refusal to accept..?

Adam Thomas: Theyre in DISHONOUR...CHECKMATE...

Adam Thomas: The 5cent postage stamp with the RUBBER STAMP STATING.....STAMP DUTY PAID .....ON TOP OF THE 5CENT STAMP IS JOINDER FOR THE CROWN. IT BINDS THEM TO THEIR ACTS TO FUCKING ACT....IT IS THUS A CROWN INSTRUMENT.

Adam Thomas: NON NEGOTIABLE NON TRANSFERRABLE WITHOUT RECOURSE FINISHES & COMPLETELY COMPLETES THE INCHOATE INSTRUMENT OR FINALISES THE INSTRUMENT. ..V O I L A...LAWFUL CURRENCY HAS BEEN CREATED TO SETTLE & DISCHARGE. F I N I S H E D !! Returned COMPLETE.

Blake Gardner: Gerry Cardinalli - you gotta love the stuff they come up with dont ya...but mate I didn't hear any specific defect in the instrument mentioned in that paragraph, did you?:-)

Adam Thomas: Bills of Exchange is where Real Remedy lays.... ORDERS from JUDGES....AMENDABLE INSTRUMENTS

Adam Thomas: Yeah Gerry, how was the instrument NOT a BoE ?? How long a time did they hold the VALUABLE INSTRUMENT FOR GERRY??

Adam Thomas: But Gerry, let them take YOU to their courts & do the EXACT SAME THING WITH THE ORIGINAL SOURCE DOCUMENT/ INSTRUMENT ( ORDER)& FINISH THE KUNT FOR GOOD....2 WORDS N O N A M E N D A B L E.

Adam Thomas: The judge's signature does not make the ORDER/ BoE COMPLETED.

Adam Thomas: Its still INCHOATE

Adam Thomas: Do the RUBBER STAMPS make the cheques bounce??

Harold Austerman: www.assistingvesel.com

Harold Austerman: http://assistingvessels.wordpress.com/

Harold Austerman: ^^^^^^^Involving the authority of the UPU is automatically invoked by the use of postage stamps. Utilization of stamps includes putting stamps on any documents (for clout purposes, not mailing) we wish to introduce into the system. As long as you use a stamp (of any kind) you are in the game. If you have time, resources, and the luxury of dealing with something well before expiration of a given time frame, you can use stamps that you consider ideal. The most preferable stamps are ones that are both large and contain the most colors. In an emergency situation, or simply if economy is a consideration, any stamp will do. Using a postage stamp and autograph on it makes you the postmaster for that contract. Whenever you put a stamp on a document, inscribe your full name over the stamp at an angle. The color ink you use for this is a function of what color will show up best against the colors in the stamp. Ideal colors for doing this are purple (royalty), blue (origin of the bond), and gold (king's edict). Avoid red at all cost. Obviously, if you have a dark, multi-colored stamp you do not want to use purple or blue ink, since your autograph on it would not stand out as well if you used lighter color ink. Ideally one could decide on the best color for his autograph and then obtain stamps that best suit one's criteria and taste. Although a dollar stamp is best, it is a luxury unless one is well off financially. Otherwise, reserve the use of dollar stamps for crucial instruments, such as travel documents. The rationale for using two-cent stamps is that in the 19th Century the official postage rate for the de jure Post Office of

Adam Thomas: STAMP DUTY PAID

Derek Moran: Gerry Cardinalli- do you have an 'Anything Done In Good Faith' section in your BoE, as we do here in Canada, its section 3. for us... INCHOATE INSTRUMENT = "im flyin' fuckin' blind here cuz my SERVANTS wont give me an honest answer to my honest question as to how it should be filled-out properly then!"

Derek Moran: In our The Dictionary of Canadian Law, the exact term they use here is: WITHOUT RECOURSE TO ME... thanks Adam, im gonna add that to my stamp

Derek Moran: WITHOUT RECOURSE TO ME: a phrase used to protect the indorser of a NOTE or BILL from LIABILITY. The Dictionary of Canadian Law, 4th-edition.

Derek Moran: 30 Presumption of value and good faith

(1) Every party whose signature appears on a bill is prima facie deemed to have become a party thereto for value.

Value means valuable consideration.

91 Good faith

A thing is deemed to be done in good faith within the meaning of this Act where it is in fact done honestly, whether it is done negligently or not.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1908/0015/latest/DLM137816.html Bills of Exchange Act 1908 www.legislation.govt.nz Bankrupt includes any person whose estate is vested in a trustee or assignee under the law for the time being in force relating to bankruptcy

Derek Moran: Hey Adam- our BoE must be different here in Canada, just did a search on 'amendable,' 'non-amendable,' 'usury'...nuthin' came up

Chad Brodgesell: May I add something here for simplicity, When I look at a 'Bill' I see what looks like a Cheque and on said 'Cheque' it states right on it, "Please make cheque Payable to blahblah". "Do not send Cash"

Mmmm, if I'm not supposed to send cash and they have specifically told me to make said Cheque (they didn't say "write a cheque and send it to us. It says "Make cheque Payable to" (If they are not talking about this cheque then 'what' cheque are they talking about?)

On the next one I get my wife and I are going to simply write the amount in write Value Accepted across the face, Make Payable to blahblah