its a binding contract as far as the law is concerned

and a great idea too!

Have you ever seen the small print on the driver's licence Eamonn?

How small are we talkin' Kev? Full or provisional?

Either? Have you seen it? Do you have a licence?

I've one in my hands now yeh... I possess one :D

oh good, this is gonna be fun! Can you see anything odd?

gotta magnifying glass?

I don't, no... I can read everything that's on it without one so obviously it's alot smaller...?

haha yeh. And it's right in front of your face - we're talkin Irish licence here yeh? You might be able to see it with the naked eye

do you see on the back where it says 'organ' donor - there's a box around the text?

well the top and bottom lines of that box are actually text

in irish on the top, english on the bottom

Holy fuck i see it now

I doubt scanning and zooming would be any use... It's tiny

***booom*** haha - It's also the top and bottom line of the box where it has the vehicle details the 'main' page if you will

That's why they tell you 'ya gotta check the small print'

I'll try a scan

if you have a HQ scanner you might be able to zoom

Oh by the way... got a birth cert?

I haven't a copy of one, no... As soon as i want to access the security represented by it I'll obtain a copy... :D

there's small print on that too - but there's also large print (the largest on the document) and it says INVALID. But it's hidden in plain site haha.

Let me know if you get a good scan i'd like to share it on tir na saor ;)

I know about that... It's a safety feature to prevent fraudulent copies being made. It is a valuable instrument after all :D The registrars office told me that if copied, the invalid shows up in RED so state departments know not to accept it...

Scans no good man. It's that small. You know what it reads I take it?

I've heard that explanation - it doesn't make sense to me, there's nothing fancy about a birth cert. Dya know, Bobby of the Sludds family has a birth cert which he got them to emboss with an the official state seal.

Well if someone copied the cert and then went to the passport office with pics of themselves, would they not be able to get a passport with their pic but "your" name on it?

You can't do anything legal without the cert... It's your ticket to ride so to speak...

It is the first 'bond' the first 'spell' cast upon you. You're supposed to have a bond with your parents and family, not the state. It's the one document that signifies our implied/assumed/presumed consent to be governed by the obligations imposed in exchange for the privileges and benefits of existing in the corporate state of mind-control (ie govern-ment).

I don't think just by having one we have complied with anything. Once we use it however T&C's apply... Governments are obligated to provide a "Security of Person" deriving from The UDHR... After that it's up to us whether or not we wish to avail of it's benefits...

it is implied complience

Gotta run... I'll be back in a while

I agree that's why it's implied. I think the government certainly have the right to assume that compliance and consent, particularly (BC aside) when we enter freely into agreements, eg for licences. I'm not saying this automatically obligates you to anything, but, of course the Gov have a right to assume you have consented when they have documents that you signed, you hold their licence and you have their reg plates which are there so they can identify their vehicles. The assumption of consent has to rebutted which I believe the Notice of Mistake is intended for?

I never understood if one could rebutt just certain things...ie the ownership of a car or whether one has to be 'in for a penny, in for a pound... a passport can be a very useful document

it's all about concessions isn't it? You exchange freedom for convenience. We take the benefits Caesar has to offer because it's easier for us to do so. What symbol is on the front of your passport? Mine's a Harp. Think of the 'power' that symbol has. It might be the same symbol that appears on the top of a court summons, your licence, and so on. Think how you 'feel' when a letter comes in the door with that symbol on it demanding you to go to court. Is it a symbol of freedom? No. Is it a symbol of bondage? It must be, even in a very technical sense because it signifies your connection with, your bond, your association and your bondage with the 'State authority'.

it allowed me to travel last week and I had a wonderful time away but i'm not certain if it's worth it.

"allowed" you, precisely. What is a passport really? Is there any way you, as a sovereign man, can create some sort of alternative that fulfilled the same function?

Scott Duncan : "Passport = MONEY. It's a "Bank Book" of the PERSON/GOVERNMENT credit you carry with you to foreign Jurisdiction. This is why a Passport from CANADA is worth more than a passport from Lebanon"

i'm not certain that if I presented something I knocked up on the computer with a self designed emblem it would pass muster presented at UK customs ;)

I'm wondering if a homemade ID doc (a nice one,of course, with picture 'n' all) would be enough to get you some kind of provisional travel documents - visiting the foreign embassy and getting a letter wih a pretty stamp on it that you can show at the border - then pack floral shirt, shorts and sandals and go.

Dean talked about this guy at the seminar- i didnt know you were part-Russian, ChiefRock ;)