The Tender For Law

Volume 3

Jul 16, 2013 11:20 PM

Ashley Hamaluk

I'm working on discharging some debt. I was wondering if someone, who has been successful in doing so, would be willing to look over what I have completed to send to the bank and see if I'm on the right track. Also, if there is anyone who has been successful in discharging debt when there is a co-signer involved. I'm not to clear if the processes are the same - discharging debt vs. involvement of co-signer (hope that make sense)?

Any insight and direction would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Admin - Scott - hope this is alright if I post this.

Read Comments

Ashley Hamaluk

Bah. Wouldn't expect anything else. Even though your hilarious commentary would be great, haha, if someone is willing to work one on one. That would be perfect. Instead of posting all the nitty gritty on here. No reason to bog down the page.

Scott Duncan

I WILL do "private work, but I demand value for my time...

If you are male, then you'd best negotiate a currency exchange, and I get paid UP FRONT. Alternate'y, you may offer up your wife/daughter/mother to work off on their backs.

If you are female, you may offer up yourself and/or wife/daughter/mother to work off the debt on your/their back.

Ashley Hamaluk

If it hasn't to this point been sold to a third party, and one decide to send letters to discharge - which Im trying to work on. To whom would you send them? I asked the bank for contact info for the CFO - the guy actually laughed at me. And told me to contact the Ombudsman? Would this be correct.

Ashley Hamaluk

Those are not my letters, which Im sure your boy-brain understands. Thats just the process Im looking at using. So basically, why even do that? Just walk away - wait for the bank to sell it to a third party - and it no longer even exists since I never contracted with the third party.

Gail Marie

I contracted with the bank to clear some debt...they cashed my check confirming their agreement to my offer but haven't responded to any of my correspondence at all..nor called me when their monthly payment was returned because of a stop payment I put on my account.

Chad Brodgesell

If the Collection Agency calls you tell them to send you a claim from to you signed. Add if they continue to harass you with out claim then you will bill them $1000.00 (insert currency here) per incident also inform them that if they affect your credit rating in anyway with out claim then they will incur a $1,000,000.00 (insert currency here) to be paid forth with to your currant address. Also tell them that this conversation is being recorded and will constitute your terms if they want to discuss any thing with you.

Gail Marie

I also have a contract opportunity for those who may want to hit my credit rating...on my credit report I have a note, stating that without having proof a lawful contract with me, they agree to pay me well for that opportunity to hit it

Carl Dunne

Is that the same with any third party ie solicitor firm ?. I had one contact me today demanding payment on a parking ticket or go to court. As it will be me vs the county council I'm assuming there is a difference

Carl Dunne

Cool. I was going to contact the most senior member of the firm and ask him is he going to take responsibility for this notice and to provide full disclosure on how to discharge the debt as i know they won't but that is pointless too in this instance yes ?

Scott Duncan

Government workers are the best to do that with. :D

"Well, since you work for the government, I will concede that it is most reasonable to presume that YOU are more familiar with the rules, than I am... Except that you work for the government... You make a living being a lying parasite. It is reasonable to assume that you haven't STOPPED being a lying parasite just for me! I shall presume you are lying. Show me this law and how I am bound to it!"

Ashley Hamaluk

Gail 'I also have a contract opportunity for those who may want to hit my credit rating...on my credit report I have a note, stating that without having proof a lawful contract with me, they agree to pay me well for that opportunity to hit it'.... How did you go about that, if you don't mind me asking?

Gail Marie

ChiefRock Sino General helped me with it....2 pieces of ID (1 with picture) and any bill with your name and address on it...send a copy of those along with your contract offer to the credit bureau with instructions to attach the contract offer to my account

Ashley Hamaluk

How would you go about wording something like that? That would be great to get more information on that. If Im understanding it correctly, if you send that to the credit bureau - your credit it protected. Unless you personally default on a payment of whatever, for example. But a third party can't touch it, since there is no contract. Correct? Or am I girl-braining it...

Scott Duncan

Ok, NONE of the shit you people are spewing is true. Seriously. Time to shut up now.

TO REVIEW:

NO COLLECTION AGENCY DOES, and NOR CAN THEY DO, ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

1: Report ANYTHING to a CREDIT REPORTING AGENCY - Anything they reported would be FRAUD, as there's NO FUCKING CONTRACT

2: FILE LEGAL CLAIMS - AGAIN, NO FUCKING CONTRACT. Did you receive a BENEFIT from them? Are they an INJURED PARTY?

Seriously. Stop making shit up. The REAL stuff is hard enough, with out having to clean up YOUR made-up shit!

Carl Dunne

The drawer is liable and the drawee only liable once the bill is presented for acceptance and he accepts the obligation by signing the bill forming contract otherwise the bill has no value until it is accepted

Carl Dunne

To sell a bill of goods today usually means 'to put something over on someone'. This usage appears to have arisen in the 1920s. No one knows exactly how it got started; but as long as there have been commercial transactions there has been fraud, so the association of the two in this phrase apparently struck a chord. Inducing people to order a bill of goods by exaggerating their quality, and even taking money for goods that never materialize at all, are familiar concepts, as centuries of court records attest. In a rather colorful example, a 1949 case in the North Carolina Supreme Court concerned a textile mill's complaint that it had been fraudulently induced to purchase a bill of goods including an item for 148,227 pounds of dyed cotton, only to find "that 100 bales of said merchandise . . . was not dyed cotton but was of a quality greatly inferior, which was known as dyed waste or 'frog hair', as the defendants then well knew."

Although bill of goods in the current sense of 'something fraudulent, deceptive, exaggerated' is usually associated with the verb sell, it is often used alone. A recent law review article about proposed "patient bill of rights" legislation contains this example, which manages to wrap together several meanings of bill: "The bill of rights formulation has also allowed for further permutations--with Democrats deriding Republican proposals as a bill of goods and a bill of wrongs, and Republicans arguing that the Democrats' approach creates a lawyer's right to bill."

Scott Duncan

The COLLECTION AGENCY BOUGHT the bill of goods (the debt) and now has TITLE to the account.

However JOINDER MUST BE RE-ESTABLISHED with all parties on the bill. You contracted with the ORIGINAL secured party, not the agency.

The bill is still VALID if the other party ACCEPTS it.

Scott Duncan

The collection agency KNOWINGLY bought a "Bill of goods" to victimize the gullible parties.

Giving your name and address is enough for them to PRESUME joinder. They THEORETICALLY could lay a claim based on this. If they send it by registered mail.

Sending it back registered mail (RETURN EVERYTHING THEY SENT WITH A NOTICE OF MISTAKE) will kill it dead right there.

Watch what you say on phone calls. Shit like "we just need to confirm your address... What is your address"?

Derek Hill

Heres another issue my friend just got hit with a lawsuit against him, for get this failure to pay. But they continue to take monthly paychecks.

He sent a letter asking questions and MAnuLife went apeshit.

Notice of mistake time for lawsuit?

Derek Moran

I have a friend who has a brief NOTICE OF CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE he sends out:

"I conditionally-accept your demand for payment, on the condition upon presentment to me of the ORIGINAL INSTRUMENT OF INDEBTEDNESS in its ORIGINAL form."

..but im guessin' NOTICE OF MISTAKE trumps that, obviously

Robert Cormier

Just in case you missed it:

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT A RETURN ADDRESS ON REGISTERED MAIL ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD! I know you said this three times and I'm shaking in my boots because I don't want to feel a tingly sensation Scott. But I'm so curious I have to ask. Shaking in boots with bloody shins. Here it goes: ChiefRock recently told me to put my Address on registered mail, but, instead of adding the last line (postal code) he told me to write: Non Domestic without Canada. Here's my questions: Did Chief Rock make a mistake instructing me to do this? Is this a valid option? Have we been misinformed?

Robert Cormier

Chad. If you put in the postal code. You are admitting/creating joinder. Essentially you are saying I'm a government of Canada employee and I am here as an employee working hard protecting/serving at this Canadian post (think military post) identified by these numbers and letters. That is my understanding.

Robert Cormier

I can't quite recall...perhaps two years ago, when I got into this, I seem to recall Winston Shrout saying AlLL postal codes throughout the world are registered with the IMF. Do I remember that accurately Scott? Or am I way off base?

Chris Evan

Here in the States, using a postal code is acquiescence to the Federal Jurisdiction. It is prima facie evidence that YOU have claimed DOMICILE in DC and are RESIDING in another State. I have sent thousands of pieces exactly like this:

John Doe 123 Main Street Peabody, Massachusetts

Some guys use [ ] around the Zip Code or write "Near", but it is not necessary. They way I write it is de jure and compliant with current Postage Regulation. ALL MY MAIL GETS WHERE I WANT IT TO!

Chad Brodgesell

Yes , and part of dealing with debt is the paper work that does deal with it. This paper work requires entries and fields to be filled out. If I am out of line here on this then continue to Discuss law but never practice the actions of the law. I think Ashley would like to have the aspects, concepts AND the Practical information of dealing with her problem. Every Single Piece of it.

Chad Brodgesell

Tell them this is a recorded call and if they continue to call thus number without providing proof of claim the per each instance they will incur a fee to be paid forthwith in Canadian funds by certified check.

Bill Wiethaup

Since you said that Ashley Hamaluk, I'll just do this one comment off topic. This goes under your city/state line and keeps them from adding a zip code without your permission. You are citing their own postal manual

Non-Domestic, w/o the US ZIP EXEMPT (DMM 602 1.3e (1)(2))

Bill Wiethaup

We ALL have the "substantive right to set-off debt".

Cf. United States v. Munsey Trust Co., 332 U.S. 234, 239, 67 S.Ct. 1599, 1601, 91 L.Ed. 2022 (1947) ("government has the same right 'which belongs to every creditor, to apply the unappropriated moneys of his debtor, in his hands, in extinguishment of the debts due to him' " (quoting Gratiot v. United States, 40 U.S. (15 Pet.) 336, 370, 10 L.Ed. 759 (1841))); see also Tatelbaum v. United States, 10 Cl.Ct. 207, 210 (1986) (set-off right is inherent in the United States government and grounded on common law right of every creditor to set off debts)

Cf. De Magno v. United States, 636 F.2d 714, 727 (D.C. Cir. 1980) (district court had jurisdiction over claim involving VA�s �affirmative action against an individual whether by bringing an action to recover on an asserted claim or by proceeding on its common-law right of set-off�) (discussing similar language of predecessor statute, 38 U.S.C. � 211)

Pete Daoust

Step by Step for Ashley ( but I�m sure she already know that) :D

1). Call bank and give your address and EVERYTHING 2). Be honourable 3). You want to pay IF you owe, ALL THE TIME 4). You have your pockets and accounts EMPTY 5). But you REALLY want to pay. 6). Bank will ACTIVELY search for a sucker 7). Bank will FIND a sucker 8). Bank will make PROFIT from this sucker 9). Sucker will CALL you. 10). You tell the sucker to contact you via mail 11). You tell the sucker you want to pay IF you owe them. 12). But the sucker haven�t done and/or supply ANYTHING to you. 13). So you don�t owe NOTHING to that sucker. 14). So the sucker is the happy OWNER of of brand spanking OLD debt. 15). End of story.

:D

T?lis B?auns

Then collection agency sends you a claim stating: "Pursuant to the Conveyancing and Law of Property Act, the Original Creditor assigned the liability, including interest, to the Plaintiff on (date)" Lawyer advises that the collections agency doesn't require further joinder.

Stuart Stone

Brauns Orig Libau T?lis, I would love to pay if they can substantiate their claim...after all I'm honourable and acting in good faith, so IF they 'claim' they were assigned the debt, THEN they must have the original document, in its' original form, signed by me.

I asked one of these collection companies for confirmation that if they had purchased the debt in question, they would have the original contract in their possession...otherwise that could be construed as fraud, coercion & harassment.

They said they were not proceeding with any claim until they investigated and could confirm that for me...that was more than two years ago, closer to 4, I stopped waiting for their confirmation.

Chris Evan

What is ADVICE? View; opinion; the counsel given by lawyers to their clients; an opinion expressed as to wisdom of future conduct The instruction usually given by one merchant or banker to another by letter, informing him of shipments made to him, or of bills or drafts drawn on him, with particulars of date, or sight, the sum, and the payee. Bills presented for acceptance or payment are frequently dishonored for icant of advice.

What is REMITTANCE? Money sent by one person to another, either in specie, bill of ex- change, check, or otherwise.

Chris Evan

So, someone presents me with a BILL. I ask for advice (instruction on BILL) on the REMITTANCE. Without advice, I can dishonor the BILL. With advice?....They would instruct me on REMITTANCE? Which is money in specie, BoE, a check, or otherwise.

What is BILL OF EXCHANGE? A written order from A. to B., directing B. to pay to C. a certain sum of money therein named. Byles, Bills, 1. An open (that is, unsealed) letter addressed by one person to another directing him, in effect, to pay, absolutely and at all events, a certain sum of money therein named, to a third person, or to any other to whom that third person may order it to be paid, or it may be payable to bearer or to the drawer himself. 1 Daniel, Neg. Inst. 27. A bill of exchange is an instrument, negotiable in form, by which one, who is called the �drawer,� requests another, called the �drawee,� to pay a specified sum of money. Civil Code Cal.

What is DRAWER? The person making a bill of exchange and addressing it to the drawee.Stevenson v. Walton, 2 Smedes & M. (Miss.) 265; Winnebago County State Bank v.Hustel, 119 Iowa, 115, 93 N. W. 70.

So, I can make a Bill of Exchange to pay a BILL? or am I not following this?

Pete Daoust

I've been asking ADVICES to Hydro-Quebec 4 times now, via registered mail on HOW to deal this BoE they keep sending me, I'm asking them to REVEAL to me EVERY method available to me ..... COMPLETE SILENCE from their part... :-\

Chris Evan

ok.....so Hydro-Quebec sends you a Bill of Exchange. So, if they presented it to you, THEY are the Drawer, correct? They are thinking you are the Drawee, yes? Who then is the Payee? You as the Drawee say "Yes, it would be my pleasure to pay this third party (who is....?) on demand or at a future date, but how would you like me to do this?"

Do I have this correct? When you received the Bill of Exchange, how were you able to identify it as a BoE and not as a Bill for Account or Services (etc) or an Invoice?

Chris Evan

Ok....I just read my Electricity Agreement. I signed this 7 years ago and haven't thought of it since. I identified myself with an SSN. This would mean I identified myself as a "corporate fiction". Thereby, I would be required to pay them. Looks like I need to change this contract and let them know I have no duty to provide them with this number pursuant to the Privacy Act of 1974. More fun!!!!!!

Pete Daoust

This is where we get fucked big time.....people are AFFRAID to ask questions....this is where I focus on my children education, I reapet them EVERYDAY......ASK ANY FREAKING QUESTIONS THAT CROSS YOUR MIND.....Always and to ANYONE...

Chris Evan

endorse (indorse) v. 1) to sign one's name to the back of a check, bill of exchange or other negotiable instrument with the intention of making it cashable or transferable. 2) to pledge support to a program, proposal, or candidate. (See; endorsement)

TO INDORSE. To write on the back. Bills of exchange and promissory notes are indorsed by the party writing his name on the back; writing one's name on the back of a writ, is to indorse such writ. 7 Pick. 117. See 13 Mass. 396.

did i miss something?

Pete Daoust

Gail Blackman, 3 parties to BoE....what if ?

Me = Drawer Bank of Canada = Drawee The one who sent me the BoE = Third party or Me = Drawer Receveur General du Canada = Drawee The one who sent me the BoE = Third party

Pete Daoust

So the one who are sending me these BoE are just starting the BoE, for me to complete it, and send it to the Drawee, which is either the Bank of Canada or The Receveur General (I'm not sure of these 2) and then one of these 2 have to send it to the third party, which is the one who sent me that bill in the first place ?

Gail Marie

If you send to the receiver general, the payment is taken from the consolidated revenue fund which is tax money... a little birdy told Derek Moran that there is only one institution in canada that can create money from our valuable consideration/signature...the Bank of Canada

Gail Marie

I don't know if the receiver general has anything to do with the bank of canada...the deptuy minister of finance sits on the board of the bank of canada although doesnt have a vote...I think the receiver general is more tied to revenue canada?

Pete Daoust

Bill of Exchange

In Montreal, February 31st 2013

For this bill of exchange pay to the order of Fucks the Puppy the sum of $100 CDN

Drawee: Bank of Canada

Fucks the Dumpy SIN: XXX-XXX-XXX (signature of the DRAWER)

Stuart Stone

The only problem with taking it out of the Public trust is that it harms others by increasing public (government) debt, which your fellow man pays for...even though this is the way we are instructed to do it via the B of E Act (at least in Australia, the instruction is to send it via the state treasury).

My understanding is that if it gets sent to the central bank (who creates the currency in the first place, they can discharge it at their end, or make the necessary deposit on our behalf...which is why people with a greater comprehension than me have done it this way.

Either way, more debt is created, which ultimately burdens and or enslaves us further, which leaves us in a Catch 22 because until we can get everyone out of this debt based system, ultimately someone 'innocent' ends up harmed by our actions.

Chris Evan

Yes....that is exactly what I was discussing with Bildo Schmildo earlier. So, if we are beneficiaries of the Public Trust and we are sent a BoE, maybe we shouldn't be doing anything with it.....maybe there is something else all together we are missing.....

Chris Evan

The way it is set up in America (although it got all fucked up with the 14th Amendment) is indirect and apportioned taxes to cover this stuff. For example...Gasoline Tax pays for Infrastructure. It would be perfect if we weren't bought by "benefits"

Andrew D'Aragon

Not sure if I understand correctly but, the bill portion would be the part that gets discharged against the public debt, and the remittance is what is owed the beneficiary of the trust being manged as part of our birthright to the resources of the land, is this close Scott Duncan? Or am I way off base on this?

Chad Brodgesell

My cable bill says "Make cheque Payable to Cogeco Canada." Right there on the face. It does not say make your cheque. Make cheque Payable. And bloody'ell it certainly looks like a cheque. So when we get our corrected bill back we are going to Accepted by signature on the back and put the B.C. number. Just to see what happens. We have switched to phone data and canceled the cable.

Pete Daoust

Chad Brodgesell, here is how I did it:

ACCEPTED BY:____________________

DATE:___________________

Account Number: (I put my SIN)

(signature)

Bill of exchange act L.R.C. (1985)

And I sent it back to the them, but I should have sent it to the Bank of Canada (original) and send them (which are the third party) a copy and a note saying that Bank of Canada will take care of this... :D

But so far, it looks like it worked anyway :D

Pete Daoust

I know for a fact that this is TRUE, because I ASKED four times Hydro-Quebec about it via refistered mail and they DON'T answer me, they just stay silent, and they don't come to my house to cut the service, They don't even call me :/

Pete Daoust

The SIN is the account number of PIERRE DAOUST Chad Brodgesell, and PIERRE DAOUST is not me, if they want to presume it's one of there emplyee, it's their business, not mine.....I AM NOT one of their employee...

Pete Daoust

James Allan, that's what I've thought 3 days ago, but I REALLY think that I AM the drawer, Hydro-Quebec just help me by starting the bill, because they have no other choices....Hydro-Quebec is the THIRD PARTY, and as far as the drawee, you can pick either the Bank of Canada or Receveur General du Canada, I pick the Bank of Canada because they will CREATE some money of account to discharge the bill, if I pick Receveur General of Canada, they will take some of my neighbor's taxes to pay the bill....

Pete Daoust

Hydro-Quebec is the THIRD PARTY, but they can't count on me to make the BoE because I'm suppose to be an IGNORANT, so they just started it, and send it to me, and because I'm suppose to be a stupid ignorant, they ASSUME that I will BUY BACK that debt :D

They have no CLUE that I can learn stuff :D

So now, I say: Hey, thanks HQ for starting that BoE for me, and now watch me ACCEPT, SIGN, DATE and complete that stupid BoE and send it REGISTERED MAIL to the Bank of Canada (Drawee) so they can send some Money of Account to HQ (Third Party)

James Allan

Or perhaps most people simply claim, by their conduct, to be the legal title holder for the NAME and government, having best evidence of legal title to the NAME, simply take no issue with your claim and is more than happy to let you deal with the bills they are actually liable for?

Pete Daoust

Oh and Chad Brodgesell, I am NOT using the SIN in this operation, THEY are using it, not me.....me I'm just doing the RIGHT thing concerning the PERSON I have, that's all, I am doing NO wrong in all this, I just DECIDE to NOT buy debt.

Pete Daoust

There is two choices with BoE.

1). You buy back the debt (I did that for the past 30 years)

2). You ACCEPT the BoE and send it to the Drawee so he can DISCHARGE it.

No other options available, unless there is another one hidden somewhere :D

James Allan

Who took the original signed copy of the Statement of Birth and who is presently the holder of same? Is that not the best evidence of title to the NAME? HAve you ever tried to get that document from the Government?

Chris Evan

I just don't get it! Period. I HAVE WAAAAAY more questions than answers. The more answers I get seem to lead to more fucking questions. I am EXTREMELY frustrated and about 34 seconds from having a French Canadian style meltdown!

Pete Daoust

Living on a lighted stage Approaches the unreal For those who think and feel In touch with some reality Beyond the gilded cage.

Cast in this unlikely role, Ill-equipped to act, With insufficient tact, One must put up barriers To keep oneself intact.

Living in the Limelight, The universal dream For those who wish to seem. Those who wish to be Must put aside the alienation, Get on with the fascination, The real relation, The underlying theme.

Living in a fisheye lens, Caught in the camera eye. I have no heart to lie, I can't pretend a stranger Is a long-awaited friend.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience Outside the gilded cage.

Chris Evan

ADVICE, com. law. A letter containing information of any circumstances unknown to the person to whom it is written; when goods are forwarded by sea or land, the letter transmitted to inform the consignee of the fact, is termed advice of goods, or letter of advice. When one merchant draws upon another, he generally advises him of the fact. These letters are intended to give notice of the facts they contain.

Pete Daoust

You can ask for ADVICES from the PERSON, COMPANY or ANYONE that will send you a bill of exchange on HOW to proceed with the fucking thing, ask them what are your OPTIONS with this thing, they HAVE to answer you.....tell them the call is recorded for training purpose, or send them your questions via registered mail...

Eamonn O Brien

So remittance is the sum of money sent between parties and advice is the notice sent to confirm the money being exchanged...?

Sorry if I'm confusing you more Chris. I've just jumped in on this thread and am only putting it together myself...

Chad Brodgesell

My advice to ...well.. any one who wants to hear it is, Read Black's Law 4th or 5th edition. Just skim it. Some words will jump out, focus on those and each word in the definition. Then go on to the next. Over and over again. Make the one dictionary (which ever you pick) the only book you read for 2 months at least. Spend every waking moment not involved with the life and family reading that one book. After that you will naturally gravitate to other documents yadda yadda.

Pete Daoust

If you receive a bill of exchange for instance from the government, regarding income taxes let say, you can send a letter to the government asking them WHAT ARE the options for me to DEAL with this thing, other than FIDUCIARY money, or bank notes.

Beverly Berta Braakschmack

Rule H6 (s) "Remittance" means the portion of an Invoice that conforms to Part II of this Rule, or the electronic data, that is submitted to the Payor's FI by the Payor along with payment, and which itself becomes a credit item representing value when subsequently Exchanged by the Payor's FI;

Sirwade Firsbey

you can either pay with that instrument which is Federal Reserve's which is a legal and constitutional law are you can discharge debt with lawful tender are lawful money which is a postage stamp of $1 this is lawful currency and valuable consideration

Beverly Berta Braakschmack

Black`s 9th coupon (koo-pon). An interest or dividend certificate that is attached to another instrument, such as a bond, and that may be detached and separately presented for payment of a definite sum at a specified time.